SEASON 2: EPISODE 07 TRANSCRIPT
I’Ashea Myles
Chancellor I'Ashea Myles (00:06): Never give up on your dream, ever, no matter where life takes you. Because my road to the judiciary was not a straight path, it had all sorts of twists and turns, but I hope that I inspire just grit and tenacity and to say, you know what? You can do it even when you've not seen someone do it before. I didn't have someone who looked like me in the same space leading and guiding me, but that wasn't a deterrent. So I hope to provide inspiration to young women, young men, brown people who look like me to say, really, you can do anything. Just don't get deterred.
Dr. Greg Jones (00:52): Our world is facing significant challenges and at every turn, another conflict awaits. Yet we survive, we overcome, we even thrive by relying on an intangible but undeniable gift. Hope. It fills us, connects us, highlights our individual purpose and unites us in the goal to do more together. Hope fuels us toward flourishing as people and as a community. My name is Dr. Greg Jones, president of Belmont University, and I'm honored to be your guide through candid conversations with amazing agents of hope. People who demonstrate what it means to live with hope and lean into the lessons picked up along the way. They are The Hope People.
Today's agent of hope is Chancellor I'Ashea Myles. A trailblazer whose path has gone from pursuing a music degree at Belmont University to becoming the first African-American female civil trial court judge and chancellor in Nashville, Tennessee. Chancellor Myles credits her success to perseverance, a passion for justice, and the guidance she's received from incredible mentors. Throughout our conversation, we explore how she's using her position to uphold the law and inspire hope in the next generation of leaders. Chancellor Myles, we're glad to have you here returning to Belmont, you're a double alumna. You started out as a music major and a performer.
Chancellor I'Ashea Myles (02:33): Yes.
Dr. Greg Jones (02:33): Tell us about the journey from music to the law.
Chancellor I'Ashea Myles (02:37): Well, yes, so I have a music degree from Belmont. I was a vocal performance major here. And I love music, I'm a musician by birth with voice. But it's either you got to strike gold or they didn't have TikTok when I was coming up so I wasn't able to create a huge following, but I did make sure that I did everything musically that I wanted to. So I got my degree. I moved to New York City. I performed in New York, I had a band. But after a while I was ready to do something different. I had a little boy and the life of a musician was just not conducive to what I was looking for, and so I called my dad one day and said, "I'm going to law school."
Dr. Greg Jones (03:28): That's great. You're now Chancellor Myles and serving as a judge. How do you see that role and the kind of platform that gives you to instill hope in people who come before your court as well as just more broadly in the community?
Chancellor I'Ashea Myles (03:45): Yeah. So in Nashville, my election to the bench was actually historic. I was the first African-American female on our civil trial courts period in Davidson County and the first African-American female chancellor. And so simply by being there, and I've often heard or people tell me, "Well, you don't look like a judge." And I'm always like, "Well, what does that mean?" I bring my authentic and my true self to the role, but I believe that I inspire young women to, number one, never give up on your dream, ever, no matter where life takes you. Because my road to the judiciary was not a straight path, it had all sorts of twists and turns, but I hope that I inspire just grit and tenacity and to say, you know what? You can do it even when you've not seen someone do it before. I didn't have a role model to call and say, hey, how do I become a chancellor? What do I do? I didn't have someone who looked like me in the same space, leading and guiding me but that wasn't a deterrent. So I hope to provide inspiration to young women, young men, brown people who look like me to say, really, you can do anything. Just don't get deterred.
Dr. Greg Jones (05:12): I love that description, the way you're redefining what it means to be a judge, what it means to look like a judge in that sense. That's really extraordinary and something important for young kid-
Chancellor I'Ashea Myles (05:23): Yeah, definitely.
Dr. Greg Jones (05:24): ... To see and to hear and to begin to be able to dream.
Chancellor I'Ashea Myles (05:28): I think as women we feel like we have to meet every single criteria and have mastered it all before we will even put ourselves out there. Where our counterparts maybe have a little bit more confidence, what have you. But I remember when I was running, someone told me, they said, "You're just not seasoned enough. You haven't been practicing enough." And I remember saying to that gentleman, "Well, please show me in the qualifications to be a judge where seasoning is a requirement, and I don't believe that that's in there, and I meet all of these other qualifications. Now, if you don't want to support me, you don't have to, but don't add additional requirements that aren't there, basically to deter me." And I put him on the never call again list, but I saw him after I had been sworn in and was very gracious to him and I thanked him for his support knowing full well that he was one of the naysayers. But you never know who people are going to be. You never know where they will ascend to so always treat everyone with kindness. My mom used to always say, "If you don't have something nice to say, just don't say anything" versus adding additional requirements or things that aren't there.
Dr. Greg Jones (06:55): Yeah. That's wonderful. I want to talk a little bit about hope. That's the focus of my leadership at Belmont, to think about letting hope abound. Where do you see signs of hope in your own life and in your work?
Chancellor I'Ashea Myles (07:09): Yeah. So I think hope, it's kind of like faith. Hope and faith to me go hand in hand. And even if I can't see it, I can hope and believe it. So every day that honestly I get to wake up is another opportunity for hope. I see glimmers of hope in my three kids. I truly am hopeful about the future. And the more seasoned you get, at least in my case, the more hopeful I am about the future and about the opportunity to do good. And definitely in my work, I get the opportunity to do good, and that symbolizes hope for me.
Dr. Greg Jones (07:52): That's beautiful. When I think about your work and your life and even just the way you sparkle as a person, you're someone who inspires hope in other people. Who served as an inspiration for you as you were growing up and inspired your sense of vocation.
Chancellor I'Ashea Myles (08:11): Yeah. So Thursday nights in my house, my family would all gather around the television and we would watch The Cosby Show. And if you're familiar with the characters there, you had Heathcliff and you had Clair Huxtable. So we didn't have any lawyers in my family, definitely not any judges. And so as a little girl, Clair had kids, she was beautiful, she had this successful career. And so in my mind, she was a judge and I was like, I'm going to be a judge like Clair Huxtable. And so you never really know how even TV characters inspire people because I didn't have a professional to look up to and say, oh, I want to be like them. But it was a character on television. Now, as I got older, I had the opportunity to work for a lawyer during my time here at Belmont, and I really credit going to law school with him.
His practice, it was a medical malpractice firm that he operated, and I answered the phones and I did the filing but he would just let me go in and read the case files. And I would get lost in people's stories. I would get lost in what happened to them and how he was working to provide a resolution to an often tragic event. And I told him, I was like, "I'm going to go be a singer in New York, and when I come back though, if it doesn't work out, I'm going to be a lawyer." And so they really inspired me in my formative years to get into the law. And of course, I've had mentors along the way, Judge Richard H. Dinkins, who was a former court of appeals judge. He was the first African-American on our civil court of appeals, and he really took me under his wings. I affectionately referred to him as my law dad. And he really guided my career just in all honesty, as a mentor, as a friend, and really as someone who lent me his credit to say, I know her, I vouch for her, and give her a chance. And I wouldn't be here today sitting where I am if it wasn't for him.
Dr. Greg Jones (10:33): That's a beautiful phrase, a law dad. And I'm sure the ways in which you looked up to him and the ways he invested in you, because a good parent often sees opportunities and gifts in you that you don't see yourself-
Chancellor I'Ashea Myles (10:49): Oh, yeah.
Dr. Greg Jones (10:49): ... Which is so important.
Chancellor I'Ashea Myles (10:51): Very important. And he did that for me.
Dr. Greg Jones (10:53): That's great. You were in the inaugural class at Belmont-
Chancellor I'Ashea Myles (10:56): I was.
Dr. Greg Jones (10:57): ... As we started a new law school. What led you to take the risk of going to law school and coming to Belmont for an unknown unproven law school?
Chancellor I'Ashea Myles (11:08): So I was talking to a friend a couple of nights ago, and I was telling him, I was like, "I am risk averse. I am not a risk-taker." And when you say it like that, I'm like, maybe I am a risk-taker. But so of course I went to Belmont for undergrad and moved away, lived in New York City, and at the time I had a little boy and I had gotten into law school other places and had scholarship opportunities other places. But my son's father was here in Tennessee and in Nashville and Dr. West, who is the VP here and who I've known for many, many years, I had a meeting with her and she said, "We're going to have a law school." And I was like, "Yeah, I heard you all are going to have a law school." And she's like, "Just come to a luncheon that they're having. You just never know."
And so I came and just, honestly, it worked. I was still able to go on my journey, and I just believed you all were going to be accredited. I had the faith to believe that it was going to work out. And I had gotten into several other different law schools, but I didn't like the feel of them. And I am a really big, how does the culture make me feel? Because if I'm going to spend a lot of time in an environment, I want it to be an environment that honestly I feel comfortable in. And Belmont always had such a warm and open air and inclusive culture, and Dr. West was here and there was a familiarity there. So you all welcomed me with open arms and the rest is history.
Dr. Greg Jones (12:57): That's a great story. And I love that the role Susan West played in that story, because I often will say that Susan West is the soul of Belmont. There are a handful of people like her that I just say represent the soul of this place and what it represents. And that's a hopeful and inspiring sign in itself. You talked about going into the law because of a desire to help people. You have a lot of empathy for people, and that sense of grace and taking into consideration the fullness of what a person brings into the courtroom. How do you hold that together with the need to follow the law and to be a fair judge in the midst of all the emotional intensity that is in the courtroom, and that you must feel yourself as a person?
Chancellor I'Ashea Myles (13:48): Yeah. So, again, anyone who tells you if they come to the bench that they know what they're doing day one. So let's just go ahead and unpack that, you don't like. Yes, you know how to be an attorney, you know how to be a zealous advocate. But when you step into the role of the judiciary, you are an impartial arbiter of the law. And at the end of the day, my job is to ensure that the laws are followed and upheld. I do think that there is a way to still do that with grace. I had someone come into court and this person was pro se, they didn't have an attorney, and ultimately I denied her petition. But she said it was the way I spoke to her, the way that I treated her with kindness is what she said. Even though I told her no, my no didn't change, but there's a way that you can just treat people with respect.
And there was a moment that she started to cry and I let her take her moment, but at the end of the day I had to deny the relief that she wanted because she wasn't entitled to it. Unless she could bring more documentation she wasn't going to get what she wanted from me. But I didn't have to be mean about it. And I think that the judiciary is sometimes people get really, really nervous when they come into court and some judges bang gavels and some are really harsh, and that's just not who I am. And the job still gets done, but it's just in the way that you speak to people and the way that you treat people. It doesn't mean that the laws aren't being followed.
Dr. Greg Jones (15:36): Yeah. That's neat because often if people feel seen and heard, even if you disagree with them, there's a connection that's been forged and that's really important. You're also known for your volunteer work in the community, whether it's with expungement clinics or the boys and girls clubs. Why is that important to you and how does that help you feel hopeful?
Chancellor I'Ashea Myles (16:02): So giving back, it reminds me to be thankful, right? Days are hard. They are long and they are hard. But my son and I, we like to serve at the Nashville Rescue Mission. It's one of the things that we do together. It's a really tangible, quick way for me to remind myself of truly how blessed I am and to help others. And so that's why I serve. I serve to remind myself, honestly, of all of the good things that God has blessed me with. Also to show my children giving back is so important. We have been given so much, giving back is just a part of it. And I really feel like, yes, I'm a judge, I'm a chancellor and I meet out justice for my day-to-day, but my most important work is the work that I do with my three kids and making sure that at the end of the day they are good humans and they give back and that they are gracious and they are loving to everyone. And so when I think about hope, I really think about, okay I'Ashea it's one thing to give hope to everyone else but are you giving hope at home? Are you instilling hope in home? Do your children feel seen? Do they feel heard? So I'm really intentional with them to ensure that I am modeling what I model outside of the home in the home for them.
Dr. Greg Jones (17:41): That's so important. And we often don't pay enough attention to it, particularly when the days feel long.
Chancellor I'Ashea Myles (17:49): Yes.
Dr. Greg Jones (17:49): And-
Chancellor I'Ashea Myles (17:49): And arduous.
Dr. Greg Jones (17:50): And arduous, yeah. You have such a hopeful spirit, and yet I'm sure you've encountered just huge obstacles all through life in varieties of ways. How have you learned to deal with those obstacles and those arduous days so that they don't get you down and turn you bitter, but help you become better?
Chancellor I'Ashea Myles (18:12): Well, so I think everyone needs a good therapist. And if you don't have one, this is my mental health plug, go get you a good therapist. I have a great one. And so the life of a judge is really lonely too. You can't talk to people about the things that you may see and the cases that come before you. And so having an outlet that is non-judgmental that you can just unpack too, is very, very important. Then also my faith, I think, it keeps me centered and it really keeps me grounded. And at the end of the day, I just believe for me that all things are going to work together for my good. So even when I go through really hard things, and I've had my share of really hard moments in life where I'm like, what is going on? I can look back at those moments and say, you know what? It worked out for my good.
Either I saw something in someone that I needed to see, or I talked to God more, or I read my Bible more, or I actually needed a break and wouldn't have taken a break. So I really believe that we cannot absolve ourselves of the trials and the tribulations and the hard things in life. Gosh, I wish I could find that button and be like, I don't want any trials. I don't want any hardship. I would push that button today. You can't do that. The only thing, at least that keeps me grounded, is when I look back over every hard thing it all fit together in this beautiful tapestry called my life.
Dr. Greg Jones (20:08): That's one of the things that I think is so important about the difference between optimism and hope, because optimism can easily flip into cynicism. And yet when you have that centeredness in God, it really does give you a sense of hope in the future.
Chancellor I'Ashea Myles (20:24): Yep.
Dr. Greg Jones (20:24): And then you know that you'll get through it.
Chancellor I'Ashea Myles (20:27): Yeah. And hope doesn't disappoint.
Dr. Greg Jones (20:29): And hope doesn't disappoint, that's right. What's giving you hope in the legal system as you think about your work as an attorney and now as a chancellor, and you think about the legal system trying to make it better, more inclusive, more fair, more just, where are you seeing signs of hope?
Chancellor I'Ashea Myles (20:45): Definitely when I see younger lawyers of color, that makes me feel hopeful. Because for the longest time, women couldn't be lawyers, black people, people of color couldn't be lawyers. So when people of color come in my courtroom and they're lawyers, I'm like, okay, that's more than the last time. That's more than I've seen. And that's a sense of hope for me. We do something in Chancery court where we invite kids into the courtroom and we let them put their principal on trial. And I do that, number one, to show elementary school students... I never knew any judges. I had no exposure to the law growing up, but in certain communities they have a lot of exposure to the law in a negative way. And so I want young people to know that number one, you can be a judge. You can wear big earrings, you can have long hair, you can have flashy nails and still be a judge as smart and meeting out justice like anyone else.
So I want them to see me and maybe identify with something that I do or have said. But then also I want them to have positive experiences with the law, positive interactions, because then when they think about a career choice later on, they can look back and say, I know a judge. I also know a lawyer, and that was a positive experience. Maybe let me look at that. Rome wasn't built overnight. A child's heart is just so open and receptive to a lot of things that if you plant good seeds in it, meaning different professions, introducing them to different ways to make a living, those seeds may grow into something that you didn't anticipate in a positive way. And so that definitely gives me hope.
Dr. Greg Jones (22:51): You talk so beautifully about kids, whether your own kids or kids coming to your courtroom and the influence. I want to connect that back to your comment earlier about Judge Dinkins and his role in your life. How do you think about the impact you want to have on younger people in relation to what he meant in your own life?
Chancellor I'Ashea Myles (23:14): Yeah. So first I was blessed with amazing parents. And so in meeting judge, I referred to him as my law dad, and today would've been my father's 77th birthday, and Judge Dinkins birthday would've been tomorrow.
Dr. Greg Jones (23:31): Oh, wow.
Chancellor I'Ashea Myles (23:32): And so my dad and my law dad knew one another, enjoyed one another's company. And so when I think of the impact that they had on my life, if I can do that for someone else, I feel like I will have done my duty. Because when I think of judge, he took me under his wing. We would meet quarterly, we would go out to dinner at his favorite restaurant, mind you, and we would just talk about my career. And he said, "Well, where are you going? What are you wanting to do? How can I help you get there?" He didn't have to do that. And so mentorship and sponsorship are things that you talk about in corporate settings, but they also happen in the legal profession. Every young lawyer needs to be mentored by an older or more seasoned lawyer, but there also is sponsorship. Like, I'm going to lend you my credit, I am going to help you, I'm going to make the call, I'm going to send the letter, and you're going in on my name. And I really hope that as I mature in my role as a chancellor here in Davidson County, and as I serve this community, that I have the opportunity to really mentor some young lawyers and do what Judge Dinkins did for me. Which is lend my credit for them to open doors.
Dr. Greg Jones (25:09): That's wonderful, thank you. One final question. What advice would you have for aspiring young legal professionals, especially those from underrepresented backgrounds, on how they can maintain hope and persevere to pursue their goals?
Chancellor I'Ashea Myles (25:25): I think that lawyers, especially from underrepresented communities, it's a daunting profession. You take on the stress of your clients so that they don't have to stress about it. But Judge Dinkins told me this, "You will never, ever, ever be able to beat a well-written motion or memorandum. It's all about the writing. It's not about what you say in court, it's about what did you write." And sitting as a judge now, it is. It's about what you write. So don't throw away the writing, and this is probably just for lawyers. Set your pleadings and your motions and your memorandum up in such a way that the judge can make a dispassionate ruling for you. I don't want to have to rule for you on your passion. Tell me why I can rule for you on the law and make it easy for me. And find a mentor, if you can, in your community or someone to talk to.
Anyone can call me, and I'm happy to lend whatever knowledge I have ascertained in being in this role to help. And then don't give up on yourself. You're going to have your share of naysayers, but if you believe and if you're confident, others will kind of gravitate towards you. And even if they don't, you keep on pushing towards your goal. And it's not always a straight line. I think that that is a huge thing. It's not going to be, I want to be a judge tomorrow and this is how I'm going to get there. It doesn't go like that. You have to be open to where the path takes you, but don't ever lose sight of your goal.
Dr. Greg Jones (27:24): Thank you for participating in this conversation with The Hope people. Our aim is to inspire you to become an agent of hope yourself, and to help us cultivate a sense of well-being for all. To join our mission and learn more about this show visit thehopepeoplepodcast.com. If you enjoyed this conversation, remember to rate and review wherever you get your audio content.